Funding Rural | Episode #9 | Season 2: Community Colleges as Rural Economic Drivers with Kate Kinder
Community colleges are meeting a growing set of needs in rural spaces: they’re boosting economic development, providing education equity, and they’re training skilled workers. Kate Kinder, executive director at the National Council for Workforce Education, discusses how community colleges reflect and amplify the economies where they’re located with programs designed to support the needs of local industries. They play a critical role in sustaining communities through education efforts that reflect the economies of the regions they serve; but are philanthropic organizations catching on and throwing their weight behind community colleges?
“The goal is not just to meet a living wage, to get by and survive, but really, how do we create pathways for all community members to thrive? And that clearly creates a thriving community and a thriving economy and that benefits our local employers as well.” –Kate Kinder
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More about Kate Kinder
Kate Kinder is a passionate, student-centered leader with over 20 years of experience expanding college and career opportunities. Currently, she serves as the Executive Director at the National Council for Workforce Education (NCWE), where she supports a national network of community colleges and their partners to advance workforce education programs, partnerships, and policies that propel economic opportunities. Previously, Kate served as the State Strategies Director at National Skills Coalition (NSC), where she led postsecondary technical assistance projects and supported efforts to advance worker equity in California and New Mexico. Prior to NSC, she worked at Portland Community College (PCC) for close to 18 years, serving in multiple student-serving and administration roles, most recently as a dean of Career Pathways. While at PCC, Kate developed and led Oregon’s nationally-recognized Community College STEP (SNAP 50/50) Consortia and Pathways to Opportunity initiative–two statewide consortia amongst all 17 community colleges and human service and workforce partners aimed at closing opportunity gaps. Her ability to collaborate and mobilize coalitions led to the passage of Oregon’s landmark Benefit Navigator Bill that reduces basic needs insecurity and funds benefit navigators at all public community colleges and universities.
Throughout her career, Kate has focused on centering lived expertise, and lifting up solutions driven by those closest to the issues. She has worked to break down silos, to reimagine systems that work for people and advance racial equity, economic mobility, and rural opportunity. She is a deep believer in the transformative power of community colleges, effective partnerships, and shifting the narratives that hold us back collectively.
“I think those who experience the issues, or are closest to the issues, have the most nuanced understanding and have the best solutions.” –Kate Kinder
Discussion Questions
- Community colleges often provide placed-based education, meaning they are training students for future jobs and skills needed locally. Can you think of a couple rural places in the areas you serve that have distinctive needs based on local industry, geography, or otherwise?
- Kate mentioned how for career technical education students, it’s sometimes an extra expense, typically less than $200, that forces students to choose between getting groceries or having childcare and going to school. The Roundhouse Foundation piloted a CTE program in Oregon that helps to solve these barriers for students. Can a program like that be replicated in your state so more rural students stay on their career path?
Resources
“It’s something as a country we really need to look at: How do we invest in our community colleges? Certainly, there’s not the same typical alumni base of donations as our universities rely on. It really is typically foundations that are providing that support, or federal state grants.” –Kate Kinder
Transcript: Episode #9 | Season 2: Community Colleges as Rural Economic Drivers with Kate Kinder
Erin Borla 0:00
You’re listening to funding rural I’m Erin Borla with the Sisters, Oregon based Roundhouse Foundation. Okay, it’s a toss up for me between my deep love of agricultural extension at state schools and community colleges. We’ve talked about ag extension with Dr Allison Myers in a previous episode. So today I want to turn our ears toward the role that community colleges play in rural and indigenous communities. We live in a time where higher education is becoming harder and harder for people to afford, and there’s an increased need for a skilled workforce connected to the trades that has made the value of community colleges that much more evident, especially in rural and indigenous communities. Community colleges reflect and amplify the economies where they’re located with programs designed to support the needs of the local industries. But are philanthropic organizations catching on and throwing their weight behind community colleges? Well, maybe not as much as we could. Kate Kinder is the executive director at the National Council for Workforce Education, and she’s had a long and successful career in community colleges, mainly at Portland Community College here in Oregon, where she served as the dean of career pathways and skills training and also built a consortium of community colleges across the state that worked to make college more accessible. She also held a role at the National Skills coalition, working hard to ensure students had equitable access to career and trade education. Kate and I talked about how community colleges are meeting a growing set of needs. They’re training skilled workers, they’re boosting Community Economic Development, and they’re serving and supporting a broader cross section of our society in the pursuit of higher education, she used the term education equity. She’s written a lot about this, and will share links in our show notes. So let’s go ahead and start there.
Kate Kinder 1:50
I mean, I think education equity is just understanding the first is just the principle that it collectively benefits all of us when we provide people with the resources that they need to achieve that education, access, success and connection to jobs. And so in doing so, we need to recognize we have systemic barriers and inequitable systems, and that people of color, women, immigrants, have not had the same, the same access to education or resources over time or to quality careers, and that there are still opportunity gaps there. And so I think it’s looking at it. It’s not based on individual people. It’s based on our systems that are really structurally not equitable for everyone. And so by figuring out a way to provide everyone what they need and redressing those barriers and those inequities it creates, just creates those access to things, to education, to the resources and to careers that are what employers needs and what our community needs. And so I think, you know, they’re too often it’s tending to see a framing of zero sum that like by by providing someone with something, you’re taking away something from someone else. That’s just not the case. I think it gets fanned up, or it feels that way, or is presented that way, but it really, you know, it’s, it’s good for all of us when we have, you know, when our community members have access to what they need to thrive, and to which includes education, which includes basic needs, resources, which includes fair access to all the careers that create economic mobility. So the goal is not just to meet a living wage to get by and survive, but really, how do we create pathways for all community members to thrive, and then that clearly creates a thriving community and a thriving economy, and that benefits our local employers as well.
Erin Borla 3:49
They’re so interesting. You talk a lot about partnerships and the work that you do, and this show certainly about philanthropic work and how philanthropy can better support rural but I think as we look at community colleges, the programs that are the most innovative are definitely connected to industry in those regions. Yeah. Do you have examples of that that you that you think are pretty great?
Kate Kinder 4:10
Yeah? I mean, I’ll use an example from a college I know Roundhouse is invested in, is Columbia Gorge Community College. I just think they are doing really, I had the opportunity to to meet with them and interview them for a research paper, and just the way that they are partnering in their community and really thinking holistically about how to braid together all their investments and resources they have for students, it’s really critical. So one of the things, I think that was really great, as they see this transformation to clean energy that’s happening, and prevalence of green jobs, and then also seeing the infrastructure funding that’s coming down, is that they’ve been really amazing at aligning their programs, recognizing that students need to have different pathways. So if they learn some electrical that could apply to the wind energy programs or apply. Working on the dam that’s on the Columbia River, or apply to, you know, the drone factory, or working in the all of the Ag kind of infrastructure that they have for shipping. And so I think there’s they just have done a really great job of thinking about what are the ways that someone can advance their career and be able to move up over time in different areas and in their major employers, and then they use the most major employers to really influence the curriculum, right? Because that’s what you need to make sure you’re delivering high quality workforce education as it needs to map to what those skills that are needed on the job. And so I think they also, and when I say their major employers, that could be larger employers or their area, but it’s also a small business, and so they think of all of those as their major employers, and have created really innovative ways for employers to partner and come into the lab, or, you know, they gave some examples of those piece of equipment that needed to be fixed. So they give those to one of the to the students, and the students work on that project. So it’s really real, real time, real life application of the knowledge that they’re learning. And then I think on top of that is they have that so really high quality education, but then they’re also really thinking about what the needs of those students are holistically. And so they do a really great job connecting in the SNAP benefits and the snap Ents, so there’s additional funding to help with a cover up costs, cover the cost of college. They also, you know, leverage the investment from your foundation and from Metallica scholars to fill in other gaps for students who might not qualify. They have child care assistance. They built dorms for so students from you know, the frontier areas could come and access the welding programs or other programs they needed. So I just think they’ve done a really great job of thinking about the role they play in their economy. And then how do they design those programs so that they really are sustainable for the college, for employers and for students? So they’re not they’re not trained for one specific job that then goes away, or that that then they have to start over. They’re really preparing, I think, their students for success over time, which is the goal.
Erin Borla 7:09
Yeah. So there’s this misconception with community colleges, because they’re often funded with some with taxpayer dollars, right? Yep, and that’s how, why did it? Why do they need more money? Like, let’s talk about that.
Kate Kinder 7:24
Yeah, yeah. So I that is a great perception. So community colleges are, you know, very state to state, but they are generally reimbursed based on the number of students that they have. And they do what’s called a they basically are some complicated calculation to figure out what the number of full time students is. But the majority of community college students are actually part time. And certainly a person doesn’t any partial services. They are a whole student, a whole person, so they need the services, and that’s advising the library all of that. So those costs are not factored in frequently. A lot of the non credit or workforce, like these things we’re talking about right now, like incumbent worker training, or, you know, the coaching that goes, goes with some programs, or re credentialing, those things are not frequently calculated into a state allocation. And so if you look at over time, investment of community colleges has really been plummeting. And so I think that community colleges are also very affected by enrollment. Obviously, if you have a funding calculation that’s based on the estimated number of full time students, you know when the economy is going well, unless people are going to college, or even during the the pandemic, there really was a huge dip right in the number of students who enrolled. And so then again, that takes resources away. And so you think about the smaller and rural colleges that can really affect the resources that they have available. And so I think that is a big portion of it. And typically those, those state funding allocations and local and property taxes are really designed to fund, like, the basic infrastructure, like, if you think of like, paying your bills, right? Like, just that, it doesn’t factor in the time that’s needed to create, you know, innovative programs to respond to merging needs, to do research and work with the community to find out what are, where are those gaps? And so I think community colleges, because it’s their mission, find a way to do those extra components, recognizing how critical they are for their community, for the economy, for their students, but those are frequently not funded. And so that’s where community colleges do an inordinate amount of braiding together of funding. And that could be, you know, other federal grants, other state grants, other philanthropic funding streams, um, and so those, a lot of times, are what really are driving workforce education programs and undergirding and funding. Them. And so I think it is, it’s something as a country really need to look at. You know, how do we invest in our community colleges? Certainly, there’s not the same typical alumni base of donations as our universities rely on. And so it really is typically foundations that are providing that support, or federal state grants. And I think one of the things that’s gonna be interesting to look at coming up is with the historic investments we have seen through infrastructure, through digital equity and opportunities there. A lot of those federal grants are coming through agencies that community colleges haven’t typically worked for or with, right? And so you look at Department of Commerce, Department of Transportation, those aren’t typically a Community College’s go to funding, you know, Department of Labor, yes, Department of Ed, yes, some Department of Ag. But even the amount of rural development grants that are available and some really innovative investment opportunities that are there, it’s just going to be a whole new kind of element to navigate of, how do you create those partnerships to tap into those funding that can make a big difference for your community?
Erin Borla 11:08
Yeah, and it’s having capacity too, right? So yeah, exactly those rural community colleges may have a development team of one.
Kate Kinder 11:16
Exactly, if they have it, right? Yeah, and so and so. I do think it makes that was one of I think my has always been my favorite part of my job is figuring out, like the coalition, kind of consortium models and the huge value of that. And so how do you bring different colleges together to support that effort? And I think the both in makes it manageable, capacity wise, for many smaller and rural colleges, but there’s also a huge advantage to the larger and urban colleges, who may have more resources in learning from the innovation and just the responsiveness that many of the rural peers have. And so I think that is one mechanism, but bringing together partners is an investment and money and time too. And so I do think that is one way I have found when philanthropy can invest in creating the table and bringing people together and helping to eliminate those silos that can have very transformative impacts over time. It’s hard to see in the immediate sometimes, but I think I had the opportunity to do some work in Arizona and in New Mexico and in some of California. And I really saw those models of bringing together all of the players in a workforce ecosystem that had really powerful impacts, and just creating space to be like, how can we, you know, eliminate these silos and weave together systems in ways that better work for our people and our communities?
Erin Borla 12:40
Yeah, so have you you mentioned working with philanthropy and having them maybe help set the table of folks to come together, and I’m assuming that’s like an entire ecosystem from like the K 12 system all the way up through deployable system and potentially with regional economic development offices. Yeah, are there other folks that need to be included in those conversations?
Kate Kinder 13:04
I mean, I think one that sometimes gets left out of the table are human service agency partners. I think they are doing very critical anti poverty work. They’re working with a family of youth. They’re very focused, mission driven, to get people out of poverty. And certainly, I think, depending on the state, they may be working with more challenging policies around that, but I do think they are doing workforce development work and so really being mindful of bringing human service agency partners to the table. I think, you know, making sure Labor’s at the table. I think making sure child care partners like Head Start or others are their corrections education certainly is another corrections system. So I think kind of thinking about, where could all these touch points be? Because part of it is just identifying, what are the roadblocks that we are collectively creating, and then, where are those immutable or need policy changes? And where are those just past precedent? And then, I guess the other one too. I want to make sure and mention this too. It’s just like bringing in tribal partners, so tribal governments organizations and different culturally specific organizations as well. And really not as a like, oh, we should add you, but really to meaningfully center like, what are we doing that is not working for your communities? And I think that’s another piece. If we’re really going to design systems that work collectively for all of us, that is a great way to start and really see how what silos impacts, that silos are having, and how they are preventing College Access and Success and career pathways, whether that’s the intent or not. I think frequently it’s not the intent. It’s just an inertia of systems that have not worked. And so I think that’s a great way to figure out how to redesign them, and also just that bringing those groups together, you can kind of reimagine like what’s possible. Level, so that you’re thinking of creating a better ecosystem.
Erin Borla 15:05
Well, and it’s the small steps forward, right? If we are only satisfied when we have these multiple leaps of success, we’re never going to get anywhere. And so being able to be content with finding these small, simple steps that are like, Oh my gosh, community college or education access is more than just paying tuition or even seeing that in K 12 education, where it’s like, we have students that it’s a 60 mile bus ride, so to actually get to school is difficult, and that’s in K 12, right? And so it’s just here. When students decide to move forward and continue their education. They’re like, cool, I got this great grant or this scholarship that covers my tuition, but I’ve got to pay $100 a week in gas to get there, have child care at home, and then I have to have a $400 pair of boots to be able to participate in the class. Yep,I’m out.
Kate Kinder 15:56
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it is, like, it’s some, it’s really sometimes as simple as that, or, you know, PCC is former President Mark Matsui would always say, like, you know, students are one flat tire away from dropping out. And so really, recognizing that can seem like this, that that one last small, like, what could be a seeming small expense has is huge, and has huge implications. And so how to make sure you address those resources? I think the other thing that I’m excited about with that just kind of that notion of like the transportation and those challenges, is if we can you really use, you know, the investments in digital equity right now to create better broadband and internet access for rural communities, or figure out a way to create better access to the satellite internet systems. You know, there’s a huge opportunity there for online learning or virtual learning. And so I was part of a meeting convening people talking about the future of workforce. And, you know, what is AI and augmented reality, virtual reality. And so someone was talking about, if you could get the virtual welder sets that students could potentially use so that they’re doing some of this work, and they could do it as part of an online class, or, you know, mobile welding units that drive to a closer community center. So I think just thinking about how to be innovative with the ways that students can learn, and part of that is also doing more competency by education. So we’re so based on the seat time and the credit hour, and really needing to transform our higher ed system to look at learning and skills and being more nimble, allowing students to do that in different ways, when they need to do it, and how they need to do it. And so I think that’s the exciting kind of future of of education and workforce, and especially with all the technological advances, there’s also a lot of risk in that exacerbating inequities and opportunity gaps. And so I think it could either be a key tool in closing them, or if we’re or if we’re not mindful and intentional, it could divide them even further, but I do think there’s some I tend to want to look at the opportunity of that. And I think there’s a lot of good things that could be done and that could really create more opportunity in rural communities, right?
Erin Borla 18:14
And I think the program that we manage here, you know, it came out of a partnership with a with the local community college, and say, Hey, we know there’s Oregon’s promise. We know there’s money for scholarships, while there always is a need for more. What’s what’s missing, what feels like students are still not participating. Even those, those things exist, and that conversation was, yeah, they can’t afford those boots for fire science. It’s too expensive. Welding hoods are too expensive, and it’s often that, or do I feed my family? Or, you know, what does that look like? And so that’s what helped us start that program, which was originally just at COCC, the Central Oregon Community College. And I have never seen in my career a program that has brought in the number of thank you notes that that initial grant brought in from COCC, from students and from parents that were like, my kid would not have participated if they had to buy a $200 piece of equipment. And so we extended that program, and I’ve steadily built it now we’re at 14 of the 17 colleges here in the state, and have information that we’ll certainly post with our with this episode, but it’s something that I think we don’t think about we’re in. I guess we’re in a privileged space when we don’t have to think about, oh yeah. Well, I also need that book, and I also need, you know, our our vet tech kids need our students. Our Vet Tech students need a stethoscope and a pair of scrubs or two, and those simple things can, can just derail a whole program.
Kate Kinder 19:47
Yeah, and on top of, you know, paying for the car to get there, or childcare, and so, yeah, I think the more resources we can provide provide to students of flexible, the better with a HEERF Act, and I’m gonna butcher the acronym, but some of the covid relief money that came out, that went to colleges and Department of Ed just was really great about getting money out quickly, recognizing there was a need during covid the pandemic, to provide resources to keep things going for the students and for the colleges. But because of that, they had much more flexibility than they typically do, and there is a report that came out that looked at the effectiveness of that, and so it resoundingly found from the student perspective, from the college perspective and from the outcomes perspective, just having that that flexible funding that wasn’t like prove to us you need to prove to us what you’re going to do with it like, had positive impacts, both in perception and students, retention and completion. So I think just thinking about those things do make a difference. And so how do we make that more a factor in how we award financial aid in our states? I mean, ideally federally, but until we can get workforce Pell Act passed and more supportive services passed as part of financial aid, our states have the ability to make those investments, and many are, but really need to look at how we can blur those lines between non credit and credit and provide students with funding to pay for it and cover the whole cost, including the tools, books, because CTE programs are more expensive for students to attend, and that is not factored into their aid package and so, and it should be.
Erin Borla 21:30
So in the new role that you have, yeah, in the next five years, where do you what what success look like?
Kate Kinder 21:39
Yeah, that’s a great question. Success would look like, having an increased membership, so more partners to work with, I think, increased peer learning, technical assistance, research opportunities. And when I look at those, I’m looking at, you know, doing those in concert and in partnership with many other organizations in this space. And then I guess, in terms of impact, really looking at that we’ve played a key role in scaling programs that work, and telling about those that we’ve helped shift the narrative around higher education and that, you know, it’s great that workforce education has been elevated more nationally, but that is should not be pitted against Transfer Pathways or a liberal arts or as if it’s a zero sum higher education pathway, but really that we’ve advanced the value of all learning and post secondary education, that we have made strides on blurring the lines between non credit and credit, that a student is a student as a student at colleges, Whether they are in a non credit, adult ed apprenticeship, ply Baccalaureate associates, that we have dismantled that hierarchy that’s often, often the framing around that, which I think will also help with the perception of higher education as a whole in the country, and then really looking at how we have looked at, You know, with all these investments that are coming down, how have we used those to create connections with colleges, to improve our workforce, education programs to deliver more equity, conscious and responsive programs, working in partnerships with employers, but also working in partnership with community based organizations and all the partners I’ve been talking about, so that it’s not a it’s not a transactional one on one, that it’s a really an ecosystem approach, and that, you know, we’re continuing to to learn from the field and advance it. And one of the things I’m really passionate about, I guess it’s kind of the last piece is, is that I really believe in the power of student and practitioner voice. And so I think that those who experience the issues or are closest to the issues have the most nuanced understanding of it and have the best solutions. And so I think figuring out ways that our students can inform what an equitable Workforce Education program looks like, figuring out a way that our practitioners are, you know, promoting the solutions and those policies that are needed and the state and really just telling the story. I think that is often missed. So I I really am interested in doing more of that work. And I think there’s the quantitative and qualitative parts to that, right? So there’s looking at the economic benefit, which is really important. There’s the benefit to the local economy, to employers, but there is also the transformative impact on an individual level. So I think that’s the piece that I why will do the work is just hearing from students what an impact it had on their lives, and that’s their perception of what’s possible. That’s their perception of what they think is possible for their kids. And so really also telling that story of, yes, it led to a better career and better economic stability, but it also shifted their sense of what the world could be and what their community can be like. And so that’s other story I want to really make sure and tells Community Colleges. That’s the heart of the work. And so that, to me, is like the perfect counterbalance to all the negativity around the value of higher education, and just carrying that forward from all the students who have, who have done amazing things in our will, in their communities,
Erin Borla 25:15
To see what’s possible. I love it. That’s awesome. Thanks for spending time today, I appreciate it. It’s, I mean, yeah, thank you. I really value the work that you’re doing and the connections that you’re making in community, and know that there’s so many, so many communities that are benefiting from that, and so many students and families. So appreciate you and all the work that you’re doing.
Kate Kinder 25:37
Thank you. And likewise, I really appreciate your investments in community, and you’re caring about the community, and the way you approach working with partners is it’s very, very relational and partnership based approach, and that, I think can really transform the philanthropic landscape as well, and especially in rural communities where relationships are so important. I just think that’s appreciate the leadership of you and the foundation for taking.
Erin Borla 26:15
We often hear from our community college partners about the need for scholarships and how that impacts one student, and how it’s so important for that one student. And while that is true, it’s so important for that one student, but that one student impacts the community. And what else are we missing when we work with community colleges, and what are those other needs? So how do we find those gaps and opportunities for our organizations to be able to fund different projects. I also wanted to spend some time really talking about who’s at the table when we host convenings. And I know Kate was so great about just listing this whole litany of folks of who she would love to include when we have these big dialogs and community focusing on programming. And half of those, I didn’t even think like, Oh yeah, you should have those folks. So really making sure that we know how interconnected each of these programs are and how important they are to the success of an entire community. And the most important piece is, what is the action of that organization? Was the action of that of that meeting and that convening? What are we going to we’re going to bring everybody together. What are they going to leave with? It’s not just a listening session. It’s a listening session with an action at the end. And how do we encourage that action ability so folks don’t feel like they’re spinning their wheels. Thanks so much for listening to Funding Rural, you can check out more show notes and transcripts at FundingRural.com.https://youtu.be/wPBLPiXzFhY
